Comments on: The Office of School-Teacher in the LCMS http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/ Waiting for the Parousia Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:55:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Christopher Esget http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1553 Christopher Esget Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:14:16 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1553 That's pretty disconcerting, Christina. That's pretty disconcerting, Christina.

]]> By: Rev. Olson http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1512 Rev. Olson Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:28:09 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1512 A good discussion of the office of teacher is found in Ministry in Missouri until 1962: An historical analysis of the doctrine of the ministry in the Lutheran Church--Missouri LC-MS clergy can request it from the library and only pay to return it (less than $5). A good discussion of the office of teacher is found in

Ministry in Missouri until 1962: An historical analysis of the doctrine of the ministry in the Lutheran Church–Missouri

LC-MS clergy can request it from the library and only pay to return it (less than $5).

]]> By: CSchellenbach http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1511 CSchellenbach Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:39:12 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1511 I don't mean to sound the "alarmist" button, but it has gone deeper than just a way to give special favors through IRS claims. This is something that many of our Concordias have embraced as a mission statement, subtly or otherwise. DCEs are taught that they are equals to the pastor and that their authority also stems from God. They are taught that it is even okay to lead the DS and, for some, that means pronouncing the absolution in the general Confession and Absolution, preaching, and yes, the Holy Supper itself. They lead it by example, as well. Although I never saw my DCE profs being the celebrant, they did "preach" in chapel on many occasions, giving their testimony or finding some way to show how to "reach the youth". The same is true, although not as obvious, with the teacher education programs. Often the Lutheran teacher's classroom is referred to as a "ministry" to the children and their parents, citing that often the only contact that some of these families have with religion of any sort is through said teacher. There is a push to get the LTD so that the teachers can feel "validated" in their chosen vocation and prove that they have a "call" from God to teach, thus showing that God has a specific, mapped out plan for their lives that they dare not stray from. Those who do stray from said call are seen as weak in the faith and suspect as non-believers in general. I know of what I speak. I am a graduate of *both* programs from one of our Concordias. I have been a victim of those who discriminate against me because I demand a solemn appointment. I will not take a "call" as I believe that is an affront to the OHM. It might have started for IRS reasons, but it has taken on a life of its own. I don't mean to sound the "alarmist" button, but it has gone deeper than just a way to give special favors through IRS claims. This is something that many of our Concordias have embraced as a mission statement, subtly or otherwise. DCEs are taught that they are equals to the pastor and that their authority also stems from God. They are taught that it is even okay to lead the DS and, for some, that means pronouncing the absolution in the general Confession and Absolution, preaching, and yes, the Holy Supper itself. They lead it by example, as well. Although I never saw my DCE profs being the celebrant, they did "preach" in chapel on many occasions, giving their testimony or finding some way to show how to "reach the youth".

The same is true, although not as obvious, with the teacher education programs. Often the Lutheran teacher's classroom is referred to as a "ministry" to the children and their parents, citing that often the only contact that some of these families have with religion of any sort is through said teacher. There is a push to get the LTD so that the teachers can feel "validated" in their chosen vocation and prove that they have a "call" from God to teach, thus showing that God has a specific, mapped out plan for their lives that they dare not stray from. Those who do stray from said call are seen as weak in the faith and suspect as non-believers in general.

I know of what I speak. I am a graduate of *both* programs from one of our Concordias. I have been a victim of those who discriminate against me because I demand a solemn appointment. I will not take a "call" as I believe that is an affront to the OHM. It might have started for IRS reasons, but it has taken on a life of its own.

]]> By: J. Thomas Foelber http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1503 J. Thomas Foelber Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:31:12 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1503 The "evolution" of our "Commissioned Minister" nomenclature was driven by first by the Selective Service and more recently by the IRS. During WWII we wanted to protect our male teachers from the draft and so we started referring to them as ministers. When I began my work (1975) as a Lutheran teacher, only male teachers were "called." The female teachers were always contracted. The IRS would allow the "called" male teachers to receive housing allowances that were not subject to income tax (like pastors). The feminist voices in the world and synod protested that this was not fair. We then began "calling" female teachers so that they could also receive non-taxable housing allowances. The "evolution" of our "Commissioned Minister" nomenclature was driven by first by the Selective Service and more recently by the IRS.

During WWII we wanted to protect our male teachers from the draft and so we started referring to them as ministers.

When I began my work (1975) as a Lutheran teacher, only male teachers were "called." The female teachers were always contracted. The IRS would allow the "called" male teachers to receive housing allowances that were not subject to income tax (like pastors). The feminist voices in the world and synod protested that this was not fair. We then began "calling" female teachers so that they could also receive non-taxable housing allowances.

]]> By: CharlesLehmann http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1495 CharlesLehmann Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:22:44 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1495 I always told my students that I had been given authority over them by God through their parents. They didn't buy it, but I think I was right. I always told my students that I had been given authority over them by God through their parents. They didn't buy it, but I think I was right.

]]> By: Christopher Esget http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1487 Christopher Esget Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:37:57 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1487 I'm wondering if the problem, in a sense, is a non-Christian (or anti-Christian!) government, and thus government schools. Why did Walther say, "Here in America, the church takes the place of the government in this matter [of schools]"? I am guessing it was somewhat related to the use of the German language, but probably far more related to the need for a distinctly Lutheran education (which, theoretically, a government in a Lutheran land would provide). In that sense, the church is doing what is properly the role of parents [and government, also in loco parentis]. Since the church is doing it, it is a churchly activity. Do the offices of pastor and parent have to be so radically separated? I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm wondering if the problem, in a sense, is a non-Christian (or anti-Christian!) government, and thus government schools. Why did Walther say, "Here in America, the church takes the place of the government in this matter [of schools]"? I am guessing it was somewhat related to the use of the German language, but probably far more related to the need for a distinctly Lutheran education (which, theoretically, a government in a Lutheran land would provide). In that sense, the church is doing what is properly the role of parents [and government, also in loco parentis]. Since the church is doing it, it is a churchly activity.

Do the offices of pastor and parent have to be so radically separated? I'm just thinking out loud here.

]]> By: Christopher Esget http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1486 Christopher Esget Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:29:26 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1486 Paul, thanks for your comment. Do you recall where that's found in Chemnitz's Loci? Paul, thanks for your comment. Do you recall where that's found in Chemnitz's Loci?

]]> By: Paul Beisel http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1470 Paul Beisel Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:43:58 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1470 I agree with this. I don't see how one can say that a parochial school science teacher has a "divine Call." In so far as that person teaches religion, he or she is still not, in my opinion, in loco pastor, but in loco parentis. Because parents have also been called by the Lord to teach their children the Christian Faith. Interestingly, Martin Chemnitz only speaks of parents and pastors as having any divinely given authority to teach the Word (Loci Theologici). I agree with this. I don't see how one can say that a parochial school science teacher has a "divine Call." In so far as that person teaches religion, he or she is still not, in my opinion, in loco pastor, but in loco parentis. Because parents have also been called by the Lord to teach their children the Christian Faith.

Interestingly, Martin Chemnitz only speaks of parents and pastors as having any divinely given authority to teach the Word (Loci Theologici).

]]> By: Chryst http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1469 Chryst Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:04:47 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1469 I have an easy time seeing how the modern office of Lutheran School Teacher falls rightly under the office of parent. I have a hard time seeing how it falls under the office of the pastor. Think of it this way, too. Teaching (like parenting) is mostly a left hand kingdom exercise of the law. I would not say the same of the Pastor, of course. I have an easy time seeing how the modern office of Lutheran School Teacher falls rightly under the office of parent. I have a hard time seeing how it falls under the office of the pastor.

Think of it this way, too. Teaching (like parenting) is mostly a left hand kingdom exercise of the law.
I would not say the same of the Pastor, of course.

]]> By: Christopher Esget http://esgetology.com/2009/06/26/the-office-of-school-teacher-in-the-lcms/comment-page-1/#comment-1464 Christopher Esget Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:57:14 +0000 http://esgetology.com/?p=1042#comment-1464 It doesn't! But at least it helps understand it. I think something like "Solemn Appointment" would be better. It doesn't! But at least it helps understand it. I think something like "Solemn Appointment" would be better.

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