Comments on: When he has tried thy soul with sadness http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/ Waiting for the Parousia Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:31:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The Cup of Suffering | godfire.org http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-1481 The Cup of Suffering | godfire.org Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:15:43 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-1481 [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...] [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...]

]]> By: Bob Waters http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-514 Bob Waters Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:27:44 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-514 I couldn't disagree more with Susan about therapy. Cognitive therapy in particular aims at helping a depressed person transcend his hopelessness and see the world realistically. In the hands of a Christian therapist (or even a non-Christian therapist who respects the Faith) it can serve as a form of apologetics that removes obstacles (in this case, biochemical ones) that stand in the way of a person actually hearing the Gospel. Becky, Luther had that kind of depression. You can't "fix" it by anything you say. But you can continue to point her to Christ; the Holy Spirit has to do the rest. But given the status of depression as a biochemical issue, I wouldn't rule out pointing her to a good therapist for some cognitive and perhaps medicinal apologetics as well. I couldn’t disagree more with Susan about therapy. Cognitive therapy in particular aims at helping a depressed person transcend his hopelessness and see the world realistically. In the hands of a Christian therapist (or even a non-Christian therapist who respects the Faith) it can serve as a form of apologetics that removes obstacles (in this case, biochemical ones) that stand in the way of a person actually hearing the Gospel.

Becky, Luther had that kind of depression. You can’t “fix” it by anything you say. But you can continue to point her to Christ; the Holy Spirit has to do the rest.

But given the status of depression as a biochemical issue, I wouldn’t rule out pointing her to a good therapist for some
cognitive and perhaps medicinal apologetics as well.

]]> By: The Cup of Suffering and Christ's Crucifixion | DISCIPLESHIP STUDIES http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-513 The Cup of Suffering and Christ's Crucifixion | DISCIPLESHIP STUDIES Mon, 26 May 2008 13:49:49 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-513 [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...] [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...]

]]> By: The Cup of Suffering and Christ's Crucifixion | DISCIPLESHIP STUDIES http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-628 The Cup of Suffering and Christ's Crucifixion | DISCIPLESHIP STUDIES Mon, 26 May 2008 13:49:49 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-628 [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...] [...] When he has tried thy soul with sadness [...]

]]> By: Susan R http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-512 Susan R Mon, 26 May 2008 00:29:33 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-512 The trouble with depression is, it's a self-fulfilling thing, and it's a deathward spiral. even when it comes and goes, falls and lifts. No one asks for it anymore than they ask for body-type or birthplace. Who knows if it comes from within, like a carbuncle, or strikes like a virus from without. When it visits, it brings along guilt, its necessary companion, so that is stands a better chance of abiding and doing its dirty work. It makes the host susceptible to so many things, but chiefly to not seeking help, but riding it out alone. Guilt makes the host assume responsibility for its own suffering, confines the host, and prevents it from sharing what will probably look like just a bad mood or an unhappy time, or even a bout of self-absorption, when it's really a time of worthlessness, and unbelief, and untold shame on account of all of that. Even when you believe, you do not believe; true as well for the most cheerful of people. Even though we're declared innocent, we have to have been guilty first, or the declaration is meaningless. The trouble with depression is, the guilt wins, even if only for a moment--and depressed 'moments' last a very long time. The guilt reminds you that, though Christ died to make you innocent, you were guilty as sin before that, and you'll be guilty again, and this is what you'll know until the day you die. So the law doesn't work because the law has already done its work. It's produced nothing but death, or a state very nearly like it. The law has no medicine. Christ loving me--black and alone and guilty as sin--is of course THE medicine. But depression and guilt combine to make Him hard to find. I wouldn't point a person to a therapist. They're pretty much dispensers of law themselves: no cure, but some of that self-absorption you figured it was anyways, some advice (more law), and perhaps a prescription. For the believer, it's only Christ for all the moments, else we're all just glory-seekers who think He expects nothing more of us than to 'Have a nice day,' and make Him proud. The trouble with depression is, it’s a self-fulfilling thing, and it’s a deathward spiral. even when it comes and goes, falls and lifts.
No one asks for it anymore than they ask for body-type or birthplace. Who knows if it comes from within, like a carbuncle, or strikes like a virus from without.
When it visits, it brings along guilt, its necessary companion, so that is stands a better chance of abiding and doing its dirty work. It makes the host susceptible to so many things, but chiefly to not seeking help, but riding it out alone. Guilt makes the host assume responsibility for its own suffering, confines the host, and prevents it from sharing what will probably look like just a bad mood or an unhappy time, or even a bout of self-absorption, when it’s really a time of worthlessness, and unbelief, and untold shame on account of all of that.
Even when you believe, you do not believe; true as well for the most cheerful of people. Even though we’re declared innocent, we have to have been guilty first, or the declaration is meaningless.
The trouble with depression is, the guilt wins, even if only for a moment–and depressed ‘moments’ last a very long time. The guilt reminds you that, though Christ died to make you innocent, you were guilty as sin before that, and you’ll be guilty again, and this is what you’ll know until the day you die.
So the law doesn’t work because the law has already done its work. It’s produced nothing but death, or a state very nearly like it. The law has no medicine. Christ loving me–black and alone and guilty as sin–is of course THE medicine. But depression and guilt combine to make Him hard to find.
I wouldn’t point a person to a therapist. They’re pretty much dispensers of law themselves: no cure, but some of that self-absorption you figured it was anyways, some advice (more law), and perhaps a prescription.
For the believer, it’s only Christ for all the moments, else we’re all just glory-seekers who think He expects nothing more of us than to ‘Have a nice day,’ and make Him proud.

]]> By: Becky http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-511 Becky Sun, 25 May 2008 13:26:36 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-511 Pastor, this is helpful. I have a friend that is going through very hard times. Her ex-husband abuses their 7-yr-old daughter, when he has visitation rights. She is very depressed about it, and although she's gone through all the legal channels, she doesn't know how to make it stop. She fears for her little girl every time she has to take her to his house, and she doesn't see God as any source of help anymore. I have no idea how to comfort her. This is an online friendship, but I still hurt so much for them all. What would you say when someone is suffering from that kind of depression? Pastor, this is helpful. I have a friend that is going through very hard times. Her ex-husband abuses their 7-yr-old daughter, when he has visitation rights. She is very depressed about it, and although she’s gone through all the legal channels, she doesn’t know how to make it stop. She fears for her little girl every time she has to take her to his house, and she doesn’t see God as any source of help anymore. I have no idea how to comfort her. This is an online friendship, but I still hurt so much for them all. What would you say when someone is suffering from that kind of depression?

]]> By: I Trust When Dark My Road » The Tried Soul http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-510 I Trust When Dark My Road » The Tried Soul Sat, 24 May 2008 14:46:48 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-510 [...] Esget over at Esgetology just made a wonderful post on depression. I would urge you to go read it. His comment about not viewing depression as a moral failure is [...] [...] Esget over at Esgetology just made a wonderful post on depression. I would urge you to go read it. His comment about not viewing depression as a moral failure is [...]

]]> By: Dark My Road http://esgetology.com/2008/05/24/when-he-has-tried-thy-soul-with-sadness/comment-page-1/#comment-509 Dark My Road Sat, 24 May 2008 14:40:39 +0000 http://esgetology.wordpress.com/?p=337#comment-509 Nicely said, thank you. Nicely said, thank you.

]]>